i18n Petition to get country management in editor & solution

Discuss all feature requests you have for a new Servoy versions here. Make sure to be clear about what you want, provide an example and indicate how important the feature is for you

Do you need country management in i18n ?

Yes, from version 3.x
0
No votes
Yes, from version 3.5.x
3
27%
Yes, from version 4.x
7
64%
No, its useless
0
No votes
What the hell is i18n?
1
9%
 
Total votes : 11

i18n Petition to get country management in editor & solution

Postby olivier melet » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:45 pm

First, let say that i18n is great!

We use it in all circumstances: standard form display, custom list management, localized field format, ...
But now our solutions are mature, and we happen to have customer from UK and US accessing the same solution. While user can accomodate to read 'programme' instead of 'program', there is still one annoying thing: this weird way they write their dates and numbers.

Should you use only one way of displaying dates in your solution you could eventually use the 'default date format' setup in preferences, but real solutions display dates and datestamps in various format depending on context. Using i18n keys to format dates and other columns was a great feature, but proved its limit with country specific variations.

So please servoy team, implement the country code in i18n management!
(in version 3.5.x and 4.1.x)

Suggestions: currently, i18n keys are replaced by current langage value if it exists, then by reference if there is no key for current locale language. Adding country management, I suggest that keys will be first searched for language+country, then for country and at last for reference.
ie: en-UK = AAAA; en = AABA and ref= BBBB

Please note that we may need non conventionnal language/country couples, like en-CH for english switzerland where english is NOT an official language in the given country (ar-US, ...)
We try to implement it ourselves, adding a country column in message table and using filters. Its manageable for simple labels, but is unusuable when using i18n keys as formatting keys.
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Re: i18n Petition to get country management in editor & solution

Postby olivier melet » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:42 am

Hmmm... we still need this feature.

Would it be possible to get an idea if servoy dev team is willing to implement it or not?

Thank you in advance.
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Re: i18n Petition to get country management in editor & solution

Postby IT2Be » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:02 am

Did you create a case for this as well?
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Re: i18n Petition to get country management in editor & solution

Postby olivier melet » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:19 am

IT2Be wrote:Did you create a case for this as well?


Just done it now, filed under feature request number 204317.
Thank you Marcel, I'm used to post on both systems for bugs, but forgot to do it for feature request.
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Re: i18n Petition to get country management in editor & solution

Postby mboegem » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:52 am

Hi Olivier,

I think this has already been implemented if you use 4.1. (not sure about the 3.5.9)
Anyway I did a feature request for this some time ago and got the reply to use i18n keys and feed them with the value you need on opening the solution.
This can be done using the i18n.setI18NMessage command.

So basically:

* create an i18n entry named like 'date_format' with a value for default language with anything you want.
* Then you can set the value using the command above to overwrite the existing value with the value from a user record.
* If there's no value in the user record just skip the setI18NMessage and it will use the default value from the i18n table.
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Re: i18n Petition to get country management in editor & solution

Postby Gabi Boros » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:31 am

hi to all,

country code in i18n management will be included in the upcoming Servoy 4.2

regards,
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Re: i18n Petition to get country management in editor & solution

Postby olivier melet » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:54 am

Hi Marc,

Thank you for your help. We already [try to] use this hack since 3.5.x [don't remember the exact build]. But first there is a lot of situations where i18n must be used without patching values by script, we also use i18n keys to set field formats (like date format, which is different for en-US than for en-UK) and this will not be easy to patch.

Last, the current interface is not usable to easily manage country specific language differences as you may encounter it for french (CA-FR-CH-CAM,...) and english.

As we currently have more than 7000 unique i18n reference keys we cannot manage country specific difference without a proper editor.

So we will definitely need to be able to edit them with a user friendly interface (remember that translation is generally NOT done by programmers).

Just adding the country column to the message table do not address the issue. We need it to be handled fully in Servoy. Besides we also will love that the size restriction for the i18n message will be removed in future release (using i18n to support integrated help for our solutions ended with several [html formatted] messages being more than 32k chars...)
Last edited by olivier melet on Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: i18n Petition to get country management in editor & solution

Postby olivier melet » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:01 pm

Gabi Boros wrote:country code in i18n management will be included in the upcoming Servoy 4.2


Cheers Gabi! This is great news !
Do you already have specifications to share with us ?
We actually will love to participate.
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Re: i18n Petition to get country management in editor & solution

Postby Gabi Boros » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:16 pm

Suggestions: currently, i18n keys are replaced by current langage value if it exists, then by reference if there is no key for current locale language. Adding country management, I suggest that keys will be first searched for language+country, then for country and at last for reference.
ie: en-UK = AAAA; en = AABA and ref= BBBB

Please note that we may need non conventionnal language/country couples, like en-CH for english switzerland where english is NOT an official language in the given country (ar-US, ...)
We try to implement it ourselves, adding a country column in message table and using filters. Its manageable for simple labels, but is unusuable when using i18n keys as formatting keys.



it is already implemented in 4.2 like it is in the suggestion, except the support for non conventional language/country couples
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Re: i18n Petition to get country management in editor & solution

Postby olivier melet » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:27 pm

Gabi Boros wrote:[it is already implemented in 4.2 like it is in the suggestion, except the support for non conventional language/country couples


Gabi, please take the time to consider the following:
- First I suppose that you are implementing a unique closed list of languages/countries in your implementation, possibly inherited from java engine or even OS. So far this will already be a great enhancement.
- But that list wherever it comes from would never be exhaustive because even if it has entries for all 'official' languages, people use other languages and locales mix - for instance Switzerland has four official languages, german, french, italian and rumantsch, and most [big] companies use english as corporate language - For all that languages, swiss people use the same 'swiss' date format. And this is a simple case, what about China and India which totalize several hundreds of spoken languages each. Or even the case of african country Cameroon which have 2 official [colonial] languages and more than 200 [domestic] spoken languages.
- Consider to provide us a method to integrate the whole complexity of the real world. Like having two separate columns to specify the language/country of any i18n key.

Thank you for your attention and support.
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Re: i18n Petition to get country management in editor & solution

Postby Jan Blok » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:18 pm

We will investigate if we are boud to the supported Java locales (http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/gui ... e.doc.html)
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Re: i18n Petition to get country management in editor & solution

Postby Gabi Boros » Tue May 05, 2009 3:33 pm

The upcoming Servoy release 4.2 will support also non conventional language/country couples.
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Re: i18n Petition to get country management in editor & solution

Postby olivier melet » Tue May 05, 2009 4:20 pm

THAT is great news, thank you servoy team!
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Re: i18n Petition to get country management in editor & solution

Postby mboegem » Tue May 05, 2009 10:09 pm

Great, that's one of the things we're really going to like!!!
Thnkx Servoy team!
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