Servoy 2019.06

Servoy announcements

Servoy 2019.06

Postby jcompagner » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:51 pm

We are pleased to announce the availability of Servoy 2019.06.0 (release number 3502)

This version is available through the the download site
We ship from now on by default only archive installers, so for windows a zip file and for osx/linux tar files.
That people can just extract and run. For OSX you need to make sure you follow a few steps (run firstuse.command first and then allow the app to run)

We now ship a java with our installation (Java 12). So there doesn't need to be a java installed on the system anymore.
Also with a next update, we can update the java version with it so no need to keep it up to date yourself anymore.

The update site can't be used to upgrade from 84 to this release, a bug in the eclipse update mechanisme will result in a broken installation.
So a clean install needs to be done if you come from 84 (but you can reuse the existing workspace just fine)
Upgrading from 2019.03 or higher should be fine. (with the "latest" update site url)

This is a release in our quarterly release cycle, if you want to stay on the LTS path you need to stick to 2019.03.1 and enabled only the lts update site.

For more information for this release: whats new
Or look at the cases fixed for the first and second release candidate

for this final build we fixed mostly stuff for the Form Designer editor and a few regressions found on cases that did go into this release.
Johan Compagner
Servoy
User avatar
jcompagner
 
Posts: 8453
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 7:26 pm
Location: The Internet

Re: Servoy 2019.06

Postby rafig » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:59 pm

Well done Servoy team!
I look forward to using this.
Have a good weekend all

Rafi
Servoy Certified Developer
Image
rafig
 
Posts: 611
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:58 pm
Location: Watford, UK

Re: Servoy 2019.06

Postby steve1376656734 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:44 pm

Hi,

Trying to update my developer but it is saying "No updates found". Has the update been posted yet?

Thanks
Steve
Steve
SAN Developer
There are 10 types of people in the world - those that understand binary and those that don't
steve1376656734
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:38 pm
Location: Lanzarote

Re: Servoy 2019.06

Postby ROCLASI » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:30 am

Hi Johan,

What is the reasoning behind the fact that Servoy no longer distribute the single installer for all platforms?
Because this means we have to manage 3 different packages that contain a lot of stuff that we might not want in our installations.
Robert Ivens
SAN Developer / Servoy Valued Professional / Servoy Certified Developer

ROCLASI Software Solutions / JBS Group, Partner
Twitter: @roclasi
--
ServoyForge - Building Open Source Software.
PostgreSQL - The world's most advanced open source database.
User avatar
ROCLASI
Servoy Expert
 
Posts: 5385
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 9:49 am
Location: Netherlands/Belgium

Re: Servoy 2019.06

Postby pbakker » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:08 pm

Also not thrilled that you now bundle a specific version of Java, as we tend to make sure to have dev workstations and servers all running the same Java version, from the same vendor and that might be more complicated now (not sure, the documentation about installing Servoy doesn't seem up to date yet: https://wiki.servoy.com/display/DOCS/In ... ion+Server or https://wiki.servoy.com/pages/viewpage. ... Id=9044645 or https://wiki.servoy.com/display/DOCS/In ... +Developer)
pbakker
 
Posts: 2822
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 8:12 pm
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Re: Servoy 2019.06

Postby mboegem » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:53 pm

+1
_____________________
Marc Boegem
Solutiative / JBS Group, Partner
• Servoy Certified Developer
• Servoy Valued Professional
• Freelance SAN Developer

Image
User avatar
mboegem
 
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:34 pm
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Servoy 2019.06

Postby pbakker » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:49 pm

https://wiki.servoy.com/display/DOCS/2019.06+Whats+new says:
Installer:

Besides the normal all in one installer we have now installers per platform (windows, osx, linux)
These installers are just zip/tar files that just needs extraction in a directory.
On OSX you need to run "firstuse.command" before starting the developer.
An installation (coming from the normal installer or from a platform specific archive) is now shipping with with a Java vm (Java12)
So for the platform specific archives you don't need to install or java have on your system.
The all in one installer still needs java for itself.


Where can we find the All-In-One installer for 2019.06? Isn't neither available in the download page nor on the build server (2019.06 isn't available on the build server at all, except maybe in release or master?).

We aren't particularly interested in overhauling our build process, which is based on the All-In-One installer

And I hope/presume that installing the bundled Java version can be disabled in the All-In-One installer, just like all other components? Cause we definitely don't want to be forced to use a specific Java version and/or vendor
pbakker
 
Posts: 2822
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 8:12 pm
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Re: Servoy 2019.06

Postby jcompagner » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:28 pm

steve1376656734 wrote:Hi,

Trying to update my developer but it is saying "No updates found". Has the update been posted yet?

Thanks
Steve


this is fixed, one update site was not updated yet.
Johan Compagner
Servoy
User avatar
jcompagner
 
Posts: 8453
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 7:26 pm
Location: The Internet

Re: Servoy 2019.06

Postby jcompagner » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:30 pm

ROCLASI wrote:Hi Johan,

What is the reasoning behind the fact that Servoy no longer distribute the single installer for all platforms?
Because this means we have to manage 3 different packages that contain a lot of stuff that we might not want in our installations.



because the combination installer is now 700MB, which is a huge one
these archive installers is way faster to use and to install.

There is still a all in one installer, but why do you really need it? whats the use case?
Johan Compagner
Servoy
User avatar
jcompagner
 
Posts: 8453
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 7:26 pm
Location: The Internet

Re: Servoy 2019.06

Postby jcompagner » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:34 pm

pbakker wrote:Also not thrilled that you now bundle a specific version of Java, as we tend to make sure to have dev workstations and servers all running the same Java version, from the same vendor and that might be more complicated now (not sure, the documentation about installing Servoy doesn't seem up to date yet: https://wiki.servoy.com/display/DOCS/In ... ion+Server or https://wiki.servoy.com/pages/viewpage. ... Id=9044645 or https://wiki.servoy.com/display/DOCS/In ... +Developer)


you don't have to use that Java version that we ship with it.
you can change the servoy.ini file just fine, pointing to another java version to what ever you want
But running the developer in something shouldn't have much effect. You should be able to use any java version you want to run and debug.
(there could be potential java changes/related bug that we need to fix for a specific version of java because they changed some implementation, but that doesn't happpen that often)

we want to get rid of being depending on the java version for the developer, it is integrated in our product, so the full installer will also have it (we also will update the java version through the developer update site)
Johan Compagner
Servoy
User avatar
jcompagner
 
Posts: 8453
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 7:26 pm
Location: The Internet

Re: Servoy 2019.06

Postby mboegem » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:49 pm

jcompagner wrote:because the combination installer is now 700MB, which is a huge one
these archive installers is way faster to use and to install.

There is still a all in one installer, but why do you really need it? whats the use case?


Like Robert mentioned: for 3 platforms, you need to manage (store/download) 3 different packages.
This is 3 times approx 440MB against downloading the all-in-one installer of 700MB.
Bandwidth is not an issue nowadays and the same can be said about storage, but keeping track of 3 different packages is a pain.
Just leave the all-in-one installer available to anyone who prefers to work that way.

You are asking about 'our' use case, but that's exactly what we want to know for the all-in-one installer no longer being available.
File-size is no reason...
_____________________
Marc Boegem
Solutiative / JBS Group, Partner
• Servoy Certified Developer
• Servoy Valued Professional
• Freelance SAN Developer

Image
User avatar
mboegem
 
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:34 pm
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Servoy 2019.06

Postby jcompagner » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:35 pm

who on one kind of pc/laptop is downloading all 3 packages?
whats the usecase? Where do you do that?
Johan Compagner
Servoy
User avatar
jcompagner
 
Posts: 8453
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 7:26 pm
Location: The Internet

Re: Servoy 2019.06

Postby mboegem » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:18 pm

jcompagner wrote:who on one kind of pc/laptop is downloading all 3 packages?
whats the usecase? Where do you do that?


For a start I run both Mac & Windows because the projects I'm working on use either one or both.
I try to run everything on Mac, but some environments are Windows only by design.

Occasionally I run stuff on Linux, so yes... I need 3 installers.
As there's not always a choice for version in projects, I need to download 3 archives now and keep them for future use.

I just don't see why not leave it up to the developer what he/she prefers?
Where does this head in the future?
_____________________
Marc Boegem
Solutiative / JBS Group, Partner
• Servoy Certified Developer
• Servoy Valued Professional
• Freelance SAN Developer

Image
User avatar
mboegem
 
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:34 pm
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Servoy 2019.06

Postby ROCLASI » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:48 pm

Hi Johan,

My biggest concern is the fact that I have no choice of what it all installs. The all-in-one installer gave us the option for Developer or Server, bundled PostgreSQL or Community PostgreSQL (installer by EDB) or connect to an existing one, examples or not, etc.
Now I have to install everything (including the JVM) and then go in and remove/edit what I want to change.
Also one need to manually run some scripts to make it all work properly. I don't think this is a good 'first experience' with the product either.

I do get the reasoning behind bundeling the JVM. Vendors like Jetbrains (IntelliJ, WebStorm, etc) and others do this too. It means one doesn't even have to have Java installed, it just works. Of course it does mean that Servoy need to support the Java (security) updates for these installations (and not for only 3 or 12 months, but longer).
But not every shop wants this. Like Paul said some shops standardize on a certain Java vendor. Be it Oracle Java, HotSpot, OpenJ9, Azul Zulu or other. And not to mention the specific version of the JVM.

For all these reasons I believe it would be a better solution (and experience) to have an installer that allows you to choose if you want the JVM, PostgreSQL and other options, which then sets it all up properly ready to go.

Now if you say that the installer becomes too big I would say that a lot of OS updates (desktop/mobile) are larger than 700MB, and nobody is really bothered about that.
But if you really have to trim the size of the installer you could go the same route as you went with the Community PostgreSQL installation. You download it when needed. Of course this requires an internet connection so offline installations might be a problem.
But if you really need to make it 3 different packages then please, please, make it an installer that gives us a choice what it installs (and set it up ready to go).
Robert Ivens
SAN Developer / Servoy Valued Professional / Servoy Certified Developer

ROCLASI Software Solutions / JBS Group, Partner
Twitter: @roclasi
--
ServoyForge - Building Open Source Software.
PostgreSQL - The world's most advanced open source database.
User avatar
ROCLASI
Servoy Expert
 
Posts: 5385
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 9:49 am
Location: Netherlands/Belgium

Re: Servoy 2019.06

Postby jcompagner » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:09 pm

Having a java installed on the system, is more and more a problem
We have a lot of problems of new customers that where struggling with this..
Or that they have a 32 bit java installed then nothing works....

So now we are fully in control. we even update java for you through a Servoy update.. (if java 13 is out we will just update it)

For the database we yes install now also basic postgresql, but only by default the binary, you have then the choice after unzip and run it the first time, do you really want to init the database ? (yes, yes with sample, or never)
For a first time user this is way easier
For existing stuff (that do download a new installer) this is way way faster, its just unzip and run, Yes OSX is a a bit annoying that you have to run the firstuse.command, but this is only OSX
0
So the only thing you now get out of the box is 1 dir "postgres_db" that takes up a bit of space.. Yes you have to remove the start up script in servoy.properties (or servoy developer preferences) to not also run it when developer starts

For the most part i also expect that you just update the developer through the update site

I almost never go to eclipse.org and download the zip again (yes for 20 years or so i download a zip there, i would hate it if that would be an installer..)
My eclipse i always just updated through "check for updates"

Java will be always in the product, because it is really a feature of the product this will not be removed from it. This way it is also update able by us, its really part of the eclipse servoy.product feature.

By the way a bit of disk space is way less of a problem for me that a huge download,
Java is not really in the way its just a dir in the feature/plugin folder.. You can point to another just fine
Same for postgresql_db folder it is just a binairy set, you don't need to use it
Johan Compagner
Servoy
User avatar
jcompagner
 
Posts: 8453
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 7:26 pm
Location: The Internet

Next

Return to Announcements

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests