Application Server for NG Client

[huber]

Hi

In the documentation here: https://wiki.servoy.com/display/public/ ... yNGClients

It says below the title Starting Servoy NG Clients:

Code: Select all

Servoy NGClients run in a browser and can be started by accessing a URL on the Servoy Application Server.

Shouldn't it read "... URL on the Tomcat Application Server", as the Servoy Application cannot be used for NG Clients!?

@Servoy: Is for the future planned to use Servoy Application Server also for NG Clients or will always Tomcat be needed? Which would mean to have 2 Application Servers running when using Smart Client and NG Client in parallel, correct?

Regards,
Robert

[Harjo]

Both are running in a Tomcat! the only thing is that the NG client runs only in a full blown Tomcat (war deployment) (or other war deployment servers) that you have to download yourself, instead of the stripped one, that Servoy Ships.
Also the smart-client runs in a war deployment! So you dont have to run seperate server next to eachother

[huber]

Yes, but the interface of the Servoy delivered (stripped one) Application Server is very different from the Tomcat one. I don't see many informations on the Tomcat as I do in the Servoy Application Server, like for example Database Servers, to name one example. So the Servoy Application Server as a dedicated server for Servoy apps still makes sense to me. What do you mean?

Both are running in a Tomcat! the only thing is that the NG client runs only in a full blown Tomcat (war deployment) (or other war deployment servers) that you have to download yourself, instead of the stripped one, that Servoy Ships.
Also the smart-client runs in a war deployment! So you dont have to run seperate server next to eachother

Regards,
Robert

[Harjo]

You are mixing stuff up. There is no difference.
Once you have uploaded your war file, than the Servoy Application Server is running.
You still have the same admin-page...

ofcourse the tomcat server has it's own webinterface, but that is something you only need, to start stop the whole tomcat server, or upload your war file

[huber]

I'm confused. I don't see solutions nor clients in the Servoy Application Server when running NG Clients (solutions). Is this a mix of display information between the Tomcat and the Servoy Server?

[Harjo]

you mean, you don't see them in the servoy-admin page?

Did you export the war, WITH the solution?
you can export two ways. with the solution and without the solution.

If you do the last one, you have the solution node back and you can upload (manually) the solution afterwards.

[huber]

you mean, you don't see them in the servoy-admin page?

I don't see them in the servoy-admoin page, yes.

Did you export the war, WITH the solution?
you can export two ways. with the solution and without the solution.

If you do the last one, you have the solution node back and you can upload (manually) the solution afterwards.

As I have the solution node in the Servoy Application Server available, it seems I exported it the second way (although I thought it was exported WITH the solution).

As the deployed solution (as WAR deployment) is running, I wonder what is happening when I import it into the Servoy Application Server. Isn't that solution then in competition with the one already running somewhere within Tomcat?
I am missing a clear picture here about the architecture used by Servoy, but may be it's somewhere described in the documentation and I did not find it.

Regards, Robert

[Harjo]

oke, so you have the solution node, but is there an upload button, to upload a new version of the solution?
if not, you have exported the war file, with the solution. This way you can't update the solution, (the old way) The only way is to replace the whole war file, with the solution.

If you exported the war file without the solution, than afterwards, you can upload (and update) your solution, like the way you are used to..

Did you fell in sleep, at my ServoyCamp session??

[huber]

Hi Harjo

Of course I did not fell asleep. I got it about the upload (import) button, but I am wondering why I don't see the solutions in Servoy Application Server although they are running. I can see them in the Tomcat server. Shouldn't they be visible in Servoy Application Server as well?

oke, so you have the solution node, but is there an upload button, to upload a new version of the solution?
if not, you have exported the war file, with the solution. This way you can't update the solution, (the old way) The only way is to replace the whole war file, with the solution.

If you exported the war file without the solution, than afterwards, you can upload (and update) your solution, like the way you are used to..

Did you fell in sleep, at my ServoyCamp session??

[Harjo]

I think you are still mixing stuff up

what do you mean by: Servoy Application Server?? the servoy-admin page? and what do you mean by: i see them in Tomcat??

The screenshot you made, is just the management layer of Tomcat, to upload and manage your war file! and these are not solutions, but whole Servoy Application servers,(totataly independant from eachother) with or without solutions.

so if you don't see solutions in the servoy-admin page (please refer to this word) you have exported the war file with solution.
if you want to see the solutions again in the servoy-admin page you have to export the war file without solution file. upload it into the tomcat server (using the management url of tomcat)
start the war file, goto the servoy-admin page. and there upload the solutions as you where used to.

here you can find some good info: https://wiki.servoy.com/display/public/ ... Deployment
and than the part about: Context:

About "context"
A application server can host many applications, where a Servoy Application Server is just one of the applications. In order to be able to access each individual application and prevent name clashes, each individual application runs in it's own namespace or "context". If the application server runs on http://localhost:8080 and the context of an application is "xyz", the assets of the application are exposed through http://localhost:8080/xyz/.....
In case of a Servoy Application Server that is deployed as a WAR file with the name "myCustomServoyServer" on a application server on http://localhost:8080, the typical url's of the assets a Servoy Application Server exposes are:
http://locahost:8080/myCustomServoyServ ... -webclient
http://locahost:8080/myCustomServoyServer/servoy-admin
http://locahost:8080/myCustomServoyServer/ - for SmartClient.

[huber]

I think you are still mixing stuff up

what do you mean by: Servoy Application Server?? the servoy-admin page? and what do you mean by: i see them in Tomcat??

Thanks for clarifying, Harjo. By Servoy Application Server I mean the server installed by the Servoy installer. Or, in other words, what is described here: https://wiki.servoy.com/display/public/ ... ion+Server.

The screenshot you made, is just the management layer of Tomcat, to upload and manage your war file! and these are not solutions, but whole Servoy Application servers,(totataly independant from eachother) with or without solutions.

That was my mixing, I have two Servoy Application Servers (each with a different context) running within Tomcat, and a separately installed Servoy Application Server, installed by the Servoy Installer (servoy_installer.jar).

But I assume, if one has to run in parallel a SmartClient and a NG Client, it's best to run both in the Tomcat, i. e. deploy them both as WAR-File?

On the other hand, is my assumption correct that I also can run (for example) the SmartClient in the Servoy Application Server (installed by servoy_installer.jar) and the NG Client in the Tomcat, which means having 2 Java processes running? (That's what I do currently on the test server).

so if you don't see solutions in the servoy-admin page (please refer to this word) you have exported the war file with solution.
if you want to see the solutions again in the servoy-admin page you have to export the war file without solution file. upload it into the tomcat server (using the management url of tomcat)
start the war file, goto the servoy-admin page. and there upload the solutions as you where used to.

I see now the solution (under the Solutions menu (or node)) in the servoy-admin page as expected

here you can find some good info: https://wiki.servoy.com/display/public/ ... Deployment
and than the part about: Context:

About "context"
A application server can host many applications, where a Servoy Application Server is just one of the applications. In order to be able to access each individual application and prevent name clashes, each individual application runs in it's own namespace or "context". If the application server runs on http://localhost:8080 and the context of an application is "xyz", the assets of the application are exposed through http://localhost:8080/xyz/.....
In case of a Servoy Application Server that is deployed as a WAR file with the name "myCustomServoyServer" on a application server on http://localhost:8080, the typical url's of the assets a Servoy Application Server exposes are:
http://locahost:8080/myCustomServoyServ ... -webclient
http://locahost:8080/myCustomServoyServer/servoy-admin
http://locahost:8080/myCustomServoyServer/ - for SmartClient.

[jbrancoIF]

On the other hand, is my assumption correct that I also can run (for example) the SmartClient in the Servoy Application Server (installed by servoy_installer.jar) and the NG Client in the Tomcat, which means having 2 Java processes running? (That's what I do currently on the test server).

Any updates on this? Am I correct to assume this could lead to some problems and conflicts? (Databroadcast, sequences, ?)

Also, I've been reading about the NGClient and the war deployment, and I can't figure why Servoy decided to take this path (war deployment mandatory to NGClient), instead of just upgrading the Servoy server installation process to do it by default.
As I understand, if you want to use the NGClient the old Servoy server installation way is useless.

[sbutler]

Using packaged Servoy installer (servoy_installer.jar) will let you run Smart Client, Web Client, Headless Client.

Using your own Java server (Tomcat, JBoss, GlassFish, etc) and deploying a Servoy WAR file will let you run Smart Client, Web Client, Headless Client, AND NGClient.

You shouldn't run separate servers just to handle different deployment types (Smart vs Web vs NG) unless you have some special circumstance and you understand what you're doing, as you will have data broadcasting issues potentially.

Why did Servoy do this, instead of just upgrading their installer? Not 100% sure, but likely to move to more standards based. New users have a tough time understanding they have to deploy some custom server. Then they want someone else to host it, and there is very limited specialized Servoy hosting options. However, if you switch to WAR deployment, you can use many different hosting providers that provide specialized Java Application Server hosting. For example, I did a presentation at Servoy World a few years ago where I deployed an application to Microsoft Azure in under 10 minutes. Preso attached here:

NextGenerationCloud.pdf

. Page 15 starts with the details. Gives a good list of the benefits of WAR deployment via PaaS providers.