Examples... Examples! EXAMPLES!

Classic Servoy
1

I feel like the manual’s have, like, one example, on row_bgcolor.

Instead of having to guess at where things are in the manual because the indexing is so poor, and hunting and pecking in the F1 help section through obscure sytax that again is not well indexed in the manual, and digging for hours though old messages on the forum just to try and get the answer on something simple, why can’t the HOW TO section be loaded with real world examples that clearly explain syntax and how to do simple things that are easy to do in FMP.

I still am looking for a thorough explanation for Calculations. I’m still looking for how to do simple things like programmatically choose between values lists attached to a field.

I’m very very frustrated with the power and the lack of explanation as to how this program works!

Real World Examples!

John Michael

2

I can understand your frustration. Quite often I have been frustrated too with all possibilities in Servoy. The only thing I can say is ‘hang in there’.

David and I are trying to create more ‘hands-on’ in Servoy Magazine ‘www.servoymagazine.com’ week by week.

In the mean time. I have tried to search for ‘bgcolor’ in the forum. It gave me a direct hit to a lot of entries but it took me no more than 1 minute to find some nice examples ‘Set Background Colour - Classic Servoy - Servoy Community’.

Ciao

3

Providence1:
…just to try and get the answer on something simple, why can’t the HOW TO section be loaded with real world examples that clearly explain syntax and how to do simple things that are easy to do in FMP…I’m very very frustrated with the power and the lack of explanation as to how this program works!
Real World Examples!

I do agree!

I love the tutorials but the are no more than introductions, I would love to see good structured tutorials like this for example:
http://www.adobe.com/web/tips/glvvtco/main.html

Or a good file databas like: http://www.fmfiles.com/

Or the best I know is doing both like the video and technique files on the “Sciptology CD” produced by Matt Petrowsky, or his site http://www.filemakermagazine.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=index&topic=

Do not only react on the feature request from the hard core users but do help the enthusiastic newbe’s to explore the wealth of all the existing features.

Like the Chinese saying:
“Better seeing once than hearing a hundered times”
(or like I :wink: Say: “Better seeing AND hearing (video’s) AND feeling (file’s) once than searching and reading and searching and reading a thousand times”)

Frank

4

Again, check Servoy Magazine. You will find some video’s Bob Cusick and Jan Aleman from Servoy made. Next to that you will find articles and tips only for newbies. That should get you going.

I agree that there could be more examples but bare in mind that Servoy is quite new.

I encourage you (and any other) to send me a list of topics that we could cover in Servoy Magazine. Based upon those lists we will come up with the ‘most wanted’ topics in the next weeks…

I can also give you (and any other interested) a training here in Europe and I know David Workman does the same in the US. Or you can attend a webtraining organized by Servoy.

5

A must see demo for those new to Servoy is Matt’s “Cool RapidSearch Techniques” at:

http://forum.servoy.com/viewtopic.php?t … +technique

6

We hear you and we’re working hard to fill the need!

Since the relaunch of Servoy Magazine several weeks ago we’ve been focusing on the new user and the FileMaker convert. Stick around and the next series of weeks will cater to the more advanced Servoy user. I’m sitting on some awesome articles and tips from some of the best Servoy developers out there and I can’t wait to get them published.

A new downloads section will be opening soon where you can download example Servoy solutions. In addition, SM will even host the files so you can try them out online without having to download and install.

If you are a vendor, I will host a demo version of your vertical market application for a slight fee. Details on this coming up.

TRAINING: November 8 to 12 in Washington, DC. The announcement coming in a few days.

Keep the great ideas coming
David

7

IT2BE:

The bg_color example is one that I tried to use to illustrate how that ONE example was readily available in the Servoy Developer Edition Vol 1, however, it is only one of what should be many examples (It is also easy to find sifting though the forum, which I don’t mind, but when there is no payoff in the end it’s very very frustrating, i.e, calculations!)

Calculations. They don’t work the same way they do in FMP. Can some piece of documentation, some built-in help feature, some threat on the forum, point me in a direction of literature or examples that demonstrate them? I think not, at this point. I believe I have read every thread on the forum, still I can’t find out to send a calculated foundset to a global.variable.

This is just one instance. I’ve look over the help F1 in Servoy 2.1. Much improved, but search for something like: dataset or getValue. You have to scroll or F-Find your way through a bunch of screen shots and text that never explains these concepts.

What the hell do I know about:

dataset.getValue(1,1) == null

or do I do that with

dataset.getValue(1,1) == null || dataset.getValue(1,1) == “”

Nothing, and I can’t find it easily or by any other means, so far.

How do I find the info?

(Some neurosurgeons go to school and actually read and are taught what not to tug on! That’s all I’m asking)

I just want some basic how to! I can click around the CRM, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to understand what’s going on in every case.

Moreover, I’m not trying to knock Servoy, or the team behind it. I love this product. In the last 12 years there hasn’t been a company that I’ve been at that hasn’t benefited from my love of FMP.

I have a deep desire to understand Servoy even more than FMP. I really believe it in. It’s amazing what you guys have done in two years (not my number). This thing is impressing diehard Access guys, but those same guys don’t understand methods at all. ANd they’ve poured over the docs!

Here’s what I’m saying: this would be good for Servoy Magazine, but really the forum’s How To section is the best place for explanations that were more than just a one to one relationship between what you can do in FMP and what you can do in Servoy (see Servoy Advanced Programming Guide for FileMaker Developers). We need real world examples of things that FMP (and Access people) do all the time in their respective programs.

If someone were to be able to update the How To forum with certain threads that were cool explanations of How To Do cool things people universally wanted to be able to do [say, use an onShow method to calculate which custom valuelist to attach to a dataprovider based on the contents of another dataprovider that’s also a value list; or just How To add an edit option programatically to a value list :) ]

Help me, help you!

I want to sing the praises of Servoy from the rooftops. I want to prosletize the app everywhere I go, but that’s difficult because I don’t fully understand it, and that frustrating because I really want to.

Warm regards,

John Michael aka Providence

8

John, I think you assume that I am somewhat linked to Servoy. That’s not the case.
I am a developer, using Servoy for a year now and earning my money with it. I have written a pretty large standard application for the graphical industry.
Because of the above I hold a lot of the knowledge you would like to have/get and therefore I started to write little tips and articles for Servoy Magazine next to trying to answer questions on the forum. This I do in the spare time that’s been given to me.
So, again, give me a list of topics you would like to see and we will work on them. Since I am not sure (anymore) if the examples you used in your second post are just that or real life issues I won’t act upon them yet :-)

9

Is everybody aware of the move sample code button in the editor treeview?

10

I will make this a tip in Servoy Magazine immediately…

I use this so often that I was under the impression that this is common knowledge but now that I think of it that might not be the case…

11

what do you want to know about this:

What the hell do I know about:

dataset.getValue(1,1) == null

or do I do that with

dataset.getValue(1,1) == null || dataset.getValue(1,1) == “”

Nothing, and I can’t find it easily or by any other means, so far.

is it the dataset.getValue() you don’t understand?
Or is it the == null || == “” you don’t understand (this is basic javascript, and yes that is one thing you need to learn)

dataset.getValue() is being explained by the move sample code. Isn’t this enough? If not what more do you really wanted to see? So we can make things better in the docs.

12

test, test, test (lukt dit wel? Ik krijg bij het posten fout meldingen!)
frank

13

Hi Johan.

I am a strong Servoy advocate and take great pleasure in telling any programmer with whom I come in contact that Servoy is about as close to the holy grail of database programming as we’re ever likely to see, but I share many of the sentiments expressed in this thread.

For a point of comparison, take a look at the RealBasic docs. Every item (function, token, etc.) has three to five multi-line examples of use under different circumstances. The ‘multiline’ part is important–the examples are not 1-line illustrations of correct syntax, they are full-blown real-world code snippets that demostrate how a given command interacts with other commands in useful ways.

Along the same lines, the ‘feature’ examples in the RealBasic docs, for things like using value lists, are much more about details and gotchas (such as that, in Servoy, when you create an array to populate a custom valuelist to in turn populate a checkbox set, you have to start that array with an empty value AND check the box ‘allow empty values’) than they are about the general and the obvious (‘go to this menu and click Edit Value Lists’ to edit a value list). The Servoy docs are filled with cases where the obvious is spelled out in incredible detail but the gotchas get one line or no coverage at all.

Again, I love Servoy, but think the product’s market penetration would rise dramatically if the learning curve could be shortened by improving the docs.

14

jcompagner:
(this is basic javascript, and yes that is one thing you need to learn)… So we can make things better in the docs.

During the Servoy seminar I joined some weeks ago they said there is plenty Javascript reference on the web and indeed when I Google for “Javascript Tutorial” I get 32.400 hits. But it is mainly “website javascript” and they said during the seminar that there where 2 sorts of javascript and one of them (Core? Som? Dom?) is used in Servoy. Could you advice some websites with good online tutorials, I don’'t want to lurn all when I need only 20%.
B.t.w. I dont see any links to Servoy or Javascript related sites you could advice on the website.
Best would be :wink: :wink: a Servoy Javascrip tutorial. Basics and …more :!:

15

Frankterbraak:
…they said during the seminar that there where 2 sorts of javascript and one of them (Core? Som? Dom?) is used in Servoy.

JavaScript is a language, then you need some structure to program the application.
In a browser is it called DocumentObjectModel (DOM) which provides for example: window.document.location.url object structure.
In Servoy this is called ServoyObjectModel (SOM) which provides for example: forms.orders.controller.visible object structure.

16

Servoy implements Core JavaScript, you can find a good reference here:

http://devedge.netscape.com/library/man … reference/

and a good guide here:

http://devedge.netscape.com/library/man … 1.5/guide/

Also note that we are continuosly extending our documentation and examples. We’ve started with a whole new series of video tutorials and we are also working on a series of mini example solutions that will cover specific topics. Meanwhile keep posting which topics you’d like to see examples for first. And keep sending in your feedback, only if you tell us which parts of Servoy need improvement we know what to do first.

17

Vigorously agree with the chief sentiment of this thread. The learning materials are as yet quite thin. Understandable with such a young program, but nevertheless true.

Indexing in the docs, while somewhat improved, is still inadequate. I’m forced to use this forum more than I’d like because it’s too tough to find stuff in the docs.

Wish each function came with a description of common uses. A few do, but most do not.

And tutorials, lots of tutorials.

In time these things will turn up, I’m sure.

18

Morley:
Vigorously agree with the chief sentiment of this thread. The learning materials are as yet quite thin. Understandable with such a young program, but nevertheless true.

Indexing in the docs, while somewhat improved, is still inadequate. I’m forced to use this forum more than I’d like because it’s too tough to find stuff in the docs.

Wish each function came with a description of common uses. A few do, but most do not.

And tutorials, lots of tutorials.

Thanks for your feedback but where do we start? The forum is here so you can tell us what you’d like to be improved. So if you think the index is inadequate please tell us which part is inadequate. If you want tutorials tells us about what, tell us which ones you want to see first. And keep this in mind: there are companies that offer Servoy training that can help you out as well.

I think with over 1800 pages of documentation, inline examples and explanation we’re well ahead of most competing companies. We know we are a new product and that you’d like to be able to know everything about it at the moment you launch it but think about the previous product you used (whatever that might be) and how long it took you before you got to the level that you now already have in Servoy.

Additionally: you can speed up the amount of documentation by purchasing printed books. Every dollar that comes in through documentation is directly invested back in the documentation team.

Keep sending in feedback, but please be specific.

19

Posters in this forum:

Remember - it took you X YEARS of experience in FileMaker to do complex things such as those listed below. Also, don’t forget that FileMaker was released 20 years ago. Servoy was released 2 years ago.

Providence1:
If someone were to be able to update the How To forum with certain threads that were cool explanations of How To Do cool things people universally wanted to be able to do [say, use an onShow method to calculate which custom valuelist to attach to a dataprovider based on the contents of another dataprovider that’s also a value list; or just How To add an edit option programatically to a value list :) ]

John - you have to admit - that is VERY, VERY, VERY esoteric and pertains exactly to your solution. Which is OK - but just don’t expect us to “think up” these type of extreme examples as areas where many people need help.

TELL US, EXACTLY, WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE IN TUTORIALS. We can only guess where people are having problems based on posts on this forum and support emails we receive.

Believe me, NO ONE wants to help you be successful with Servoy more than we do! :D

SEND ALL TUTORIAL SUGGESTIONS TO bcusick@servoy.com.

Also - why don’t each of you who posted here help out by writing at least ONE tutorial of your own (in article or Flash form) and submit it here and to Servoy Magazine as well http://www.servoymagazine.com. That way, everyone can benefit from your “How do I do this in Servoy given that all I have ever worked with is FileMaker” knowledge.

Cheers,

Bob Cusick

20

jaleman:
Additionally: you can speed up the amount of documentation by purchasing printed books. Every dollar that comes in through documentation is directly invested back in the documentation team.

First, one can buy all the printed books, but can’t study them all at once.
What do you suggest with what book to start and why etc.
Maybe some explanation what the intention is for example between the reference guide and the user guide and in fact all the other manuals. Or maybe some developers would share there experience with the manuals.

Second, is it possible to add more examples at A ‘central’ database of tips and tricks by Servoy and all users of this forum wich could be downloaded every month from servoy.com and upgraded to Servoy Developer.
Those who add new examples can use the original or a new topic (sticky) to explain with a short description what they added.

Just my two cents…