Hello
I just don’t seem to find out how a user would search for a checkbox which is unset, i. e. a checkbox not set?
When switching into Find mode, all checkboxes become “empty” and I can check a checkbox and the result is correct. But what about finding an unchecked checkbox?
Regards, Robert
Hi Robert,
I tend to use a seperate form for searches and use radiobuttons for this with 2 options (checked/notchecked).
Hope this helps.
Hi Robert
Thanks for your idea! As we have built up our solutiion to a certain model I do not want to change, so your proposal is in this case not really an option.
Still thanks for always fresh ideas form you, very appreciated
Regards, Robert
ROCLASI:
Hi Robert,I tend to use a seperate form for searches and use radiobuttons for this with 2 options (checked/notchecked).
Hope this helps.
Hi Robert,
Is it the issue with using a separate form ?
If so, why not use the same form and replace the checkbox with radios using ‘visible’ property or similar - so you have the two items on the same form but alternate which one you see using a method triggered when going into find mode ?
Cheers
Harry
Hi Harry
It’s the issue that I don’t think I have to adapt a logical solution to the tool. I think it may not be that way so I refuse it, so to say on the methodology side of the discussion.
But what I sure refuse is to use radio buttons instead of checkboxes, just to overcome a weakness. A radio button is a selection of 1 out of n, whereas the checkbox is n out of m. So I do not want to break this logic, as I think there are already enough not so good user interfaces out there and we are at least trying to make a good one .-)
But the real point seems no one to say explicitly, it is NOT possible to find an unset checkbox, or is it?
Regards, Robert
Harry Catharell:
Hi Robert,Is it the issue with using a separate form ?
If so, why not use the same form and replace the checkbox with radios using ‘visible’ property or similar - so you have the two items on the same form but alternate which one you see using a method triggered when going into find mode ?
Cheers
Harry
Hi Robert,
I understand your point now.
It is a GUI issue with how that search can be presented to the user.
A single checkbox represents both an ‘on’ and an ‘off’ state together and you cannot find an ‘off’ state in a vanilla search form.
As the difference here is the logical operator of ‘NOT’ why not add this option to the find form so that the user can choose the checkbox and then choose to add the ‘NOT’ operator which then can control a search which excludes that value from the results
So the search actually becomes either:
Find ‘x’
OR
Find NOT ‘x’
I can’t imagine how you will present this to the user - just trying to brainstorm some possible solutions
Cheers
Harry
The thing is with a checkbox that when you do a find you actually want to use 3 states:
Servoy will only handle the first and last option.
Not sure how Servoy should handle it differently though. How would you represent a NOT (checked) in a checkbox
Hi Harry
Your are right at the point! I am wondering how to present in Find mode the possibility to search for checkbox on or off. Someone sure must have come accross this but I can’t find some well thought out method or hint.
Servoy (by accident I assume, as it only works half way) allows to search for the ‘on’ state of a checkbox, but I can’t find out how to search for the ‘off’ state.
An elegant solution (my opinion only) would be if there is a visual feedback in Find mode when I set a checkbox to unset (‘off’ state) - even if the user would have to click twice to ‘set’ the ‘off’ state in Find mode. What do you think?
Regards, Robert
Harry Catharell:
Hi Robert,I can’t imagine how you will present this to the user - just trying to brainstorm some possible solutions
Cheers
Harry
Hi Robert
Thanks, how do we get the
See my just posted answer to Harry for the unchecked state.
Regards, Robert
ROCLASI:
The thing is with a checkbox that when you do a find you actually want to use 3 states:
- checked
- unchecked
- don’t use in search at all
Servoy will only handle the first and last option.
Not sure how Servoy should handle it differently though. How would you represent a NOT (checked) in a checkbox
ROCLASI:
By not touching the checkbox at all after you go into find mode.
Not sure if it is used in the search when you check and uncheck it again though. Would have to test that.
Tested it in 3.5.6.
When you check and uncheck it then that field is (still) not used in the search.
ACK! Edited my original post instead of quoting it!
Hi Robert - both of you
I like the idea of the checkbox representing the 3 states in find mode (check, uncheck, not used)
In order to do this could you present the checkbox as a series of 3 icons which you toggle between as you click on it ?
Click once and a check or tick icon shows that the value is to be searched for
Click again and a hyphen or minus symbol shows that the value must be empty
Click again and the icon shows blank checkbox which means that it is not used in the search
Each click will cycle you through those three choices and your method handles the search criteria based on the choice
Cheers
Harry
Hi Harry
I fully support this idea! This would really be great to have (at least for apps having checkboxes). I completely forgot the idea of the minus, used for example in the DTP tool FrameMaker.
The display of the minus if the checkbox value is null would be very nice in ‘normal’ view as well.
Would you propose your ideas in the support system, please?
Many thanks, Robert
Harry Catharell:
Hi Robert - both of youI like the idea of the checkbox representing the 3 states in find mode (check, uncheck, not used)
In order to do this could you present the checkbox as a series of 3 icons which you toggle between as you click on it ?
Click once and a check or tick icon shows that the value is to be searched for
Click again and a hyphen or minus symbol shows that the value must be empty
Click again and the icon shows blank checkbox which means that it is not used in the searchEach click will cycle you through those three choices and your method handles the search criteria based on the choice
Cheers
Harry
Hi Harry and Robert,
I know on Mac the minus in the checkbox is not a strange thing. The question is do the other LAF’s support it. I can’t remember seeing it used on any other platform than Mac.
to really be able to do this in the ui we need a tripple state checkbox (most of the time in the ui you see 'grayed out square in it like: http://www.databasedev.co.uk/triplestate_checkbox.html
But cant you override the onSearch command? and then when a search happens just look if the value is set in the find state and if it isnt set it in code yourself and then do the search?
one problem, when i tested this myself i did encounter a bug in 4.0 that you cant test for unset values in a findstate, i will fix this
(doing things like:
if (!myboolean)
{
myboolean = 0;
}
in an onSearch method.
Hi Johann
jcompagner:
to really be able to do this in the ui we need a tripple state checkbox (most of the time in the ui you see 'grayed out square in it like: http://www.databasedev.co.uk/triplestate_checkbox.html
Only if you are a Windows guy. But as Jan showed in his .NET vs Servoy comparison in Muenchen, 67% of Windows guys are looking for a way to leave Windows, so you won’t see it so often any more .-)
Seriously, this should be OS specific, of course, and on a Mac for example you never see grayed out squares…
jcompagner:
But cant you override the onSearch command? and then when a search happens just look if the value is set in the find state and if it isnt set it in code yourself and then do the search?one problem, when i tested this myself i did encounter a bug in 4.0 that you cant test for unset values in a findstate, i will fix this
(doing things like:if (!myboolean)
{
myboolean = 0;
}in an onSearch method.
Good idea, but the user needs visual feedback.
Regards, Robert
Are there tri state checkboxes on the mac?
How do they look?
for example here is one that did try to make one by also trying to preserve the LnF
but if you want to see it you need a tristate checkbox
Does the mac has such a thing? Do you know how it looks like?
there is a guy here:
http://www.roseindia.net/javatutorials/ … kbox.shtml
that tried to make one by trying to get the lnf as good as he could get.
If you want to, why not set this up using a single dataprovider with three different images that change programmatically with every click and then branch inside the onSearch override method ?
Cheers
Harry
Hi Johann
I know it the way Robert Ivens said, so it looks like in the picture below. I did not find a hint or example in the OSXHIGuidelines though.
Regards, Robert
jcompagner:
but if you want to see it you need a tristate checkbox
Does the mac has such a thing? Do you know how it looks like?there is a guy here:
http://www.roseindia.net/javatutorials/ … kbox.shtmlthat tried to make one by trying to get the lnf as good as he could get.
